Patrick and Gillian both got their start in podcasting
through Broadway-focused shows. Patrick started the Theater People podcast in 2013 and
followed that up with Broadway
Backstory (currently the number one Broadway-themed podcast on iTunes)
in 2016. Gillian is the creator, executive producer, and host of The Hamilcast: A Hamilton Podcast,
which she launched in January of 2016. Sharing a love of the stage and true
crime, these eccentric, always amusing hosts have gone from attempting to solve
the Zodiac case to
putting together a podcast that does the (nearly) impossible – making us laugh
while making us think. We talked to Patrick and Gillian about the podcast and
spilled a little theater tea in the process.
Socialite Life: How did you go from talking about
Broadway to talking about true crime?
Patrick Hinds: The thing about that was that Gillian
and I had been in the Broadway community together for a long time and hadn’t
really gotten to know each other and then, one day, we met and I remember
distinctly having the feeling – and I used to say that to you (Gillian) all of
the time – how has this person not been in my life forever? For two reasons, a.)
I feel like I’ve known you my whole life and b.) my life would have been so
much better if I had known you the whole time.
Gillian Pensavalle: Aww. I feel the same way. The
friendship was very real and we were off and running. It would have been nice
if we had those 30 years but then we realized, let’s just flash forward like we
have been friends for those 30 years – and that’s sort of where we are now. So,
we were hanging out and meeting up for happy hours and a couple of times a week
we were finding ourselves asking, “Are you around?” and our conversation went
from Broadway to true crime and we just started chatting and we wanted to solve
the Zodiac murder at first – not even as a podcast. We were just going to solve
it. I made a graphic and then we decided we were going to have a podcast, and I
made another graphic and then we realized, well, maybe we should cover
documentaries instead. I feel there are better people to solve the Zodiac
murders than us.
Patrick: I have this distinct memory of us sitting at
a bar, not that we were officially waiting until 4:30 to have a cocktail, but I
was like it’s appropriately late enough in the afternoon, we can have a drink. And
I just remember us looking into each other’s eyes and screaming about true
crime at each other and it’s this really weird thing when you’re able to make a
new friend at this late stage in my life – I’m basically a Golden Girl – but I
just remember thinking I want to do something with this person. I want to work
with this person. And we both realized we loved true crime and we’re just
screaming about true crime all the time, why don’t we stick microphones in
front of our faces and talk about it?
Gillian: Maybe our friends will listen once in a
Patrick: And when we started, we truly didn’t know
what we were doing. We started off literally thinking we’d make a podcast about
solving the Zodiac and we evolved. I really wanted to make a very straightforward,
sort of boring recap show or an interview show. But, when we sat down to
actually talk about the first thing we decided to recap together, which was the
movie The Impostor,
(Gillian) was just making me laugh so hard, and if you listen to that episode,
I’m turning away from the microphone. I’m trying so hard for people to not hear
me laughing – because the idea was that we were going to make a serious thing…
Gillian: You were asking me things like, “What did
you think of the choice for cinematography in this scene?” And I was like, “I
don’t know, but that person who’s talking is an idiot. The light looks great on
this dummy, but who cares about the lighting?”
Patrick: And I remember I sat down to edit it and I
remember calling her and being like, “I think this thing where we recap
something and laugh about it, I think that’s the podcast.”
Gillian: I mean, even the Tabloid episode is
not what it has become.
Patrick: Yeah, we recently replayed that as an
episode, it was like episode 25 or whatever, and it sounds so different.
Gillian: It sounds like we’re whispering. It sounds
like we don’t want to disturb the person in the next room.
Patrick: It sounds so different from the podcast
we’re making now. We are two episodes away from our 100th episode
and, breaking news, we’re going to redo The Imposter – our first episode
will be our 100th episode. We’re not going to listen to that first
episode before as though we’ve never seen the movie before. We’re going to redo
it and see how different it sounds.
Socialite Life: Have you found any documentaries that
were uncomfortable to cover?
Gillian: Abducted in Plain Sight,
Something Wrong with Aunt Diane, those are all documentaries we’ve had
phone calls about asking how can we laugh at it
Patrick: The common denominator is kids. Whenever
there’s stuff about kids, and I’m a parent, but I’m a human being with a heart,
it’s hard to even though we know every time we make a joke, every time we’re
laughing, it’s always about the idiot prosecutor or the bad detective. It’s
never about the victim. It’s never about the crime, even though we know that.
There definitely are times when we wonder if it’s appropriate to laugh at all.
And what we always hear, I’d say 99.9% of the time is, “You helped me be able
to watch this. You helped me be able to know this story. You were able to find
some sort of levity and now I know and I’ve learned something from watching
this documentary or listening to this episode” which is great and it’s sort of
like what we’ve always said, you have to laugh or you’re just going to cry
Socialite Life: Is there a documentary you want to cover that
you still haven’t?
Gillian: Oh, I have such a long list.
Patrick: It’s more than that. There are subject
matters that don’t have documentaries. I wish they had documentaries so we
could cover them. People always want us to talk about Jodi Arias and we would
love for there to be a great documentary about that so we could cover it.
Gillian: Or the Zodiac.
Patrick: Yes! This all started because Gillian and I
were going to solve the Zodiac murders! We were going to make a true crime
Gillian: I made a graphic for it. I went to the
library. We were going to solve the Zodiac. It is my favorite movie. But then we realized that it doesn’t sound
fun. It sounds like a lot of work and maybe there are more capable people out
there who can do that. We would love to cover a good documentary about it, not
a shitty 45-minute YouTube one. I’m talking about a good one with good
Patrick: How does that not exist about the Zodiac?
The one Zodiac documentary we’ve been able to find is called something like “It’s
the Zodiac Calling” or something, and it’s not even that it’s a badly made
documentary, it’s more that it’s just interviews with people talking to the
camera, which makes it really hard for us to be able to find anything to talk
about because we’re just looking at interviews.
Gillian: And sometimes a documentary can be just
great, and the subject matter will be something we really want to cover, but if
it doesn’t work for our format, then, unfortunately, it’s not going to be a
Socialite Life: Who would you love to have on the show
as a guest?
Patrick: I’m really, truly fascinated by Amanda Knox. Good, bad,
ugly, beautiful…I am totally fascinated by her. I would love to sit down and
interview Amanda Knox. I would just love to talk to her. I would love to have a
conversation to just see what she’s like.
Zellner from Making a Murderer. We were obsessed with her in the ten
episodes she was in and we love her.
Patrick: This is putting it in a whole different
realm, but I would love to interview Maura Murray.
I would love to talk to her and ask “Girl, where are you?”
Socialite Life: Here’s a question that combines your
love of theater and your true crime obsession. If you could make a musical of
one of the cases or documentaries you’ve covered, which one would you choose
and who would you cast in it?
Gillian: Well, funny you should ask. During our
Patreon coverage, one of the first things we did was cover the very first
season of Serial,
which was the case about Adnan Syed. We are friends now, crazily enough, with Rabia
Chaudry, who brought the case to Serial and she’s actively working on
his case. We just started talking to her a lot and we sort of became friends
and when we did the coverage of the case against Adnan Syed from HBO, in one of
our things that just happened, started singing about this bonkers relationship
between Hae Min Lee’s ex-boyfriend and her best friend. They were on Spring
Break and we just sort of started riffing and now Rabia Chaudry, come hell or
high water, every time we talk to her, she asks “When is that musical going to
get made?” The idea is there but that’s the only musical we’ve actually talked
Patrick: The other really crazy thing is that we
found out recently is that Justin
Guarini is a really big True Crime Obsessed fan and if you don’t
know who he is, he was the runner-up to Kelly Clarkson on the first season of American
Idol. He’s also a big Broadway star. He’s been in six Broadway shows and
he’s a big star. We actually got to meet him a week ago and he’s actually coming
over tonight for drinks, just to hang out. So, I would definitely want to cast
him in the Serial musical and there’s this other actress on Broadway who
we love, her name is Lesli
Margherita. She’s an Olivier-winning actress and she’s also just a
brilliant comedian and she’s just this Broadway dame who we love and we would
love to cast her as well.
Gillian: And we’d each have bit roles in it!
Socialite Life: Of course! Switching gears a bit,
let’s talk about you live True Crime Obsessed show. What can fans expect when
they see you on stage?
Patrick: You know, I always say that our live shows
are like nothing you’ve ever seen before. A lot of podcasts do live shows where
you come and you watch a great show, but our live shows are crazy. We’re up and down and screaming and I’m
throwing myself on the floor and, when we did our live shows in Chicago, I was
dragging people up onto the stage. When we did our Pride show in New York City,
we had drag queens and we had a comedian open for us. We’re always so happy and
are pleasantly surprised that people actually show up to see us that we’re just
kind of all over the place. But our live shows are really well put together. It’s
very much like our podcast, except instead of using audio clips, we use video
clips and it’s just really, really funny.
Gillian: It’s hard to even say, “This is what you can
expect” because, if one crazy thing doesn’t happen, another one will, so the
expectation is just show up to this party and hang out and something great is
going to happen. What’s going to happen is that Patrick and I will show up and
we’ll talk about the documentary. That’s for sure what you’re going to get.
Patrick: That really is how we pitch it. It’s a
party. It’s like hanging out with us at a cocktail party where we get a little
drunk and a little crazy and talk about true crime.
Socialite Life: Do you have any other projects in the
Patrick: We have a ton going on, some of it we can’t talk about yet because there are big announcements coming. I’m launching the Obsessed network, so we’re bringing on more podcasts under our umbrella that are going to be done in our style of true crime, which I always describe as a little bit funny, a little bit gay, a little bit out there. We’re sort of expanding the brand in a lot of ways. We’re expanding our brand in a lot of really exciting ways, some of which we can talk about and some of which we really can’t yet!
Gillian: But just know, just before we jumped on this call, we were talking about more documentaries that we’re going to cover, getting the schedule together, talking about live shows, so we are here for the long haul, I can promise you that.
Patrick: There’s a lot of stuff to stay tuned for. Our Patreon is ongoing. We
have over 90 full bonus episodes, and we’re just going to keep doing it and
doing the series that people want and keep making that fun over there.
If you haven’t checked out True
Crime Obsessed, there’s
no better time than the present to add it to your playlist! New episodes drop
each Tuesday wherever you get your podcast fix and bonus episodes are released
on TCO’s Patreon every Friday. Follow
the show on Twitter and
follow Patrick and Gillian too!